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DirtyDigz

NJ snags another PA resident who forgot where America ends

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Maks, I get it man - I really do you know that - but why is it always about us gun owners?

What I mean by that is, why do we always push he blame to the actor?  yeah he effed up he kept shit in plain view...

 

But isn't it just as bad that we accept this tyranny?  Isn't it just as bad that where discretion might be able to be given it is not.....?

 

We as gun owners are in for a world of hurt - *all* of us from the pistol guys, to the hunters, the shotgun sports guys, to the tacticool guys, idpa guys etc.....

 

Make no mistake it matters not the type of gun - THEY WANT THEM ALL and will make examples of ALL OF US one way or another.


Whether you are in PA NJ AZ CO SC....etc...  

 

This guys "stop" is one example how all of us will be treated in the coming years.

 

 

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21 hours ago, PK90 said:

He is not that stupid or arrogant.

I am sure he is not - 

But stuff happens - and I am *NOT* out to make this a bash LEO thread, retired or active, not at all.  I know many of both and they are gun guys through and through, as well as think our laws are bullshit.  They know where the problems are and they are not the 99.9999% of "civilians"

 

But to be so callous as to say frig him - the guy made a mistake in a victim less crime - that maybe could have been handled differently.

 

I travel to VT all the time through NYS - 1/2 mile from my home all the way up to the Fairhaven VT entry - I travel with firearms, cased locked and in the trunk.

But say I get stopped for a moving violation - and say there is a search and let's say some trooper or local town squadie wants to jam me up.

 

Is it going to be " frig him too "

 

This is how and why we lose - instead of rallying to the defense of others that have been jammed up needlessly, by the stupidity and quagmire of stupid laws state to state - we write *them* off as idiots and dolts......  shameful to say the least.

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1 hour ago, USRifle30Cal said:

But stuff happens - and I am *NOT* out to make this a bash LEO thread, retired or active, not at all.  I know many of both and they are gun guys through and through, as well as think our laws are bullshit.  They know where the problems are and they are not the 99.9999% of "civilians"

Yes, the guy broke the letter of the law.... so do thousands of other people EVERY day...

LEOs have discretion on what they want to charge or not. This guy was a mile or two away from the PA border on his way home. The cop could have just busted his chops, and told never do it again. It's not like he was pulled over in Bergen County...  as long at this particular cop is a 2A supporter....

Also, I'm sure the cop did a look up on this guys background. He would know instantly if he had a questionable history, which could have swayed him. Has anyone seen a follow up article about the guy, did have any outstanding warrants or a history of other legal issues?

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We are all opposed these ridiculous illegal laws.  As a community we stand behind the defense that we are a nation of laws.  That the constitution should prevail.  We argue that we are legal gun owners staying within the unfair laws and only criminals should be prosecuted as we do nothing wrong.  When there's a gang shooting, mass shooting, suicide, etc. we point how they broke the law somehow and we stay within the boundary so don't blame us.  Each time someone does one of these reckless things we take an unjust hit.  As a community of these law abiding citizens we frown on those who do what we feel is an ignorant illegal move.  That being said I believe most in this thread are reading the article and taking it at what it says (as hard as that is it do these days).  It doesn't read as one gun mistakenly misplaced.  If it is to be believed, the guy had a load of illegal stuff displayed illegally.  Should he have been allowed to?  Absolutely.  I count 5 "mistakes" in charges and I'm sure I'm missing some.  I make the same trip several times a year to Maine as you do to VT.  It's a pain in the ass isn't it?  I can't stop for a hotel until NH.  On the way home I have to stop on the interstate before I get to MA to be sure my mags are empty and put away my carry.  But as a responsible gun owner who believes we will prevail with the constitution on our side I do it.

I'm sorry but this guy wasn't wearing a 3 pointed hat screaming "give me liberty or give me death". He was being a sloppy knuckle head.

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On 9/13/2019 at 11:31 AM, Sniper said:

LEOs have discretion on what they want to charge or not. This guy was a mile or two away from the PA border on his way home. The cop could have just busted his chops, and told never do it again. It's not like he was pulled over in Bergen County...  as long at this particular cop is a 2A supporter....

 

In reality cops don't have as much discretion as they used to. Everything is being filmed and recorded these days. Yes, legally the cop would have the authority to let him go and send him back to PA to unload his gear, but if something goes sideways the cop who cut him slack is going to have a real problem that could easily be career ending. Would you risk that if you were that cop? I recall reading in an article about this story that the cop asked him if he was "coming from or going to a range", so it sounds to me like the cop was trying to give this guy a leg to stand on, but the guy answered "no". So there is only so much they can do when people do stupid things.

I hope this guy fights this to the end. There are two ways we might see NJ oppressive gun laws overturned in court - civil lawsuits or, like this case, a criminal case that sets new precedents.

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On 9/12/2019 at 11:08 AM, Greenday said:

Should a cop pull someone over, find a backseat full of cocaine, and just let them go because they personally think drugs shouldn't be illegal? Wouldn't want to ruin some 70 year old's life over wanting to party?

What lawful purpose is there for a civilian to be in possession of a backseat full of cocaine?

Because I can think of a dozen reasons for having legally owned firearms in your back seat.

Your comparison is ridiculous.  Where are the calls by libs....as they do for pot... to make situations like this, where someone with no intent to harm, should be issues a summons and not face any criminal penalty?  Didn’t half the morons on the debate stage last night say they want all people in jail for non-violent crimes released?

What a bunch of hypocrites.

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On 9/13/2019 at 9:42 AM, USRifle30Cal said:

Maks, I get it man - I really do you know that - but why is it always about us gun owners?

What I mean by that is, why do we always push he blame to the actor?  yeah he effed up he kept shit in plain view...

 

But isn't it just as bad that we accept this tyranny?  Isn't it just as bad that where discretion might be able to be given it is not.....?

 

We as gun owners are in for a world of hurt - *all* of us from the pistol guys, to the hunters, the shotgun sports guys, to the tacticool guys, idpa guys etc.....

 

Make no mistake it matters not the type of gun - THEY WANT THEM ALL and will make examples of ALL OF US one way or another.


Whether you are in PA NJ AZ CO SC....etc...  

 

This guys "stop" is one example how all of us will be treated in the coming years.

 

 

Do gun owners line up to support gang bangers or "poor underprivlidged people who rob a convenience store because they have no other choice.?"

There are many gun owners who are quick to jump on and defend ANYONE, without even knowing the facts.

The problem is... dumb people give the rest of gun owners a bad name.

There is a profound difference between...

"Oh shit, I crossed in NJ by accident with a CCW because I was unaware my GPS was sending me through here."

and "I don't give a shit about gun laws or anyone else, yep... I will drive around with guns I absolutely know are illegal and I either didn't give a crap about it or had it with me on purpose and just got caught."

I do not know of any gun owners in NJ or PA who drive around with guns on their front seat WITHOUT a CCW...

Besides that... so they were on front seat, does it mean while he was at work those guns were chilling there as well?

We can protest the laws... but I just find it in poor taste we stand behind idiots.

Seriously... if this guy was a Black 35 year old, would people still support him?  Or to the same extent?

And to the idiotic notion of "He admitted he had guns..."

You have freaking gun cases on your front seat in wide open view... How the hell are you going to lie about it?  It is probable cause at that point and if you lie about it, you are really going to get screwed.

Yes, I live in PA and I generally have a few guns in my truck locked in a container, out of sight... and when I drive to PA, I got to make sure I take them out (unless I am driving to the range)....

BUT... you have got to be a freaking moron... OR completely above the law to drive into NJ with gun cases in your front seat.

The guy was too lazy to throw them in the trunk? (if he had a cover) or at least on the floor of the back seats and cover it up... heck... go stop at any store and cover them up so they are out of sight.

Considering he did not give a shit about driving with guns on his front seat, do you think he is above board with other laws instead?

Just as likely he commutes to work with guns, full well knowing he cannot do it legally and "would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Here is the judged by 12 part. 

THERE IS ZERO reason to ILLEGALLY drive around with guns on front seat full well knowing it is illegal.

This is not an "oops, I went to the range and forgot to take them out."

 

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On 9/13/2019 at 9:51 AM, USRifle30Cal said:

I am sure he is not - 

But stuff happens - and I am *NOT* out to make this a bash LEO thread, retired or active, not at all.  I know many of both and they are gun guys through and through, as well as think our laws are bullshit.  They know where the problems are and they are not the 99.9999% of "civilians"

 

But to be so callous as to say frig him - the guy made a mistake in a victim less crime - that maybe could have been handled differently.

 

I travel to VT all the time through NYS - 1/2 mile from my home all the way up to the Fairhaven VT entry - I travel with firearms, cased locked and in the trunk.

But say I get stopped for a moving violation - and say there is a search and let's say some trooper or local town squadie wants to jam me up.

 

Is it going to be " frig him too "

 

This is how and why we lose - instead of rallying to the defense of others that have been jammed up needlessly, by the stupidity and quagmire of stupid laws state to state - we write *them* off as idiots and dolts......  shameful to say the least.

The difference here, you are covered by FOPA and you are not going to be stupid enough to have guns on your front seat.

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So okay... turns out the guy is a member on PAFOA... a PA gun forum, lived near the boarder.  He knew the damn laws and seems like many others are piling on.

http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=351699

I do hope the guy gets a really bad slap on the wrist and I think having his guns taken away in lieu of jail time should be his biggest priority.

This was not a simple... "oops I forgot."   Heck, it seems like he was coming back home from work?  If so... he knowingly drove to NJ and then back, with guns on his front seat.  

Most sane people would hide their guns and drive and obey all traffic laws knowing they do not want to get pulled over.  This guy gets pulled over for failing to use a turn signal. 

Yes, NJ laws are horrible and unjust and unconstitutional... BUT two wrongs don't make a right... 

He needs a really good criminal lawyer and hope to not spend the rest of his life in jail.... but a gun rights case this is not... this is more and more an "I completely don't give a shit and will do what I want."  

Heck, Aiken case was more worthy, at least he did not bring it on himself. 

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There is not enough information to make any calls.   Preface that, though, with the fact that NJ is unjust.  The laws broken  don't fit the punishment.   Was there room behind the seat for everything ?  Was the observed case secured?  Were the others secured?  Is there in fact a place to shoot in Dingman's Ferry?  Could he have driven in PA with said case on front seat?  Perhaps he does all the time.  How did he happen to leave that stuff in his car overnight?   Pretty Obbvious he was singled out for PA plates.  On the other side you would have to be all kinds of stupid to do what he did.  Were the guns owned by him with a clear path?  I would tend to agree with some on here that other than the fact that this probable poor schmuck most likely didn't need to be stopped and harassed the seemingly complete disreguard for the Reupublik's largely unconstitutional laws would have  been a red flag.  Any officer would need to act on this one and let it be sorted out later.  However, since NJ is so unjust it should give all LEOs pause to consider this domino of events.  Was he transporting guns for new ownership?  Did he just pick them up, or just steal them?  Was his job that of a bankrobber in NJ?  Did he have any misdemeanors or other offenses, and what was his mental state?   Was he bringing his daughter's contraband out of the Republik so that she wouldn't be in trouble?   So,  he had brought them in and was on his way out?   The court (if it had any) should be able to use common sense and discretion.  Keyword SHOULD,  but then this state is just too unjust for that and has mandatory sentensing to put idiots behind bars instead of violent criminals.  The fact that this guy was.released.pending trial would suggest he is just a dumb ass possibly with Alzheimers and truthfully not otherwise a threat and that his story checked out and that he was not considered dangerous,  but rather caught up in this drag net and brilliant police work against seemingly nonviolent citizens.  He should NOT be excused for his actions BUT justice and common sense SHOULD prevail and the punishment SHOULD fit the crime.  However in NJ  that isn't going to happen.  Perhaps he was.a.disgruntled employee?  Maybe he had tools, or the stuff just didn't fit behind his seat.   Was he coming from his OWN business and consequently was he allowed to transport under an exemption.  We don't know details.  Maybe he was threatened.  Maybe he had them with him because they weren't secure at his PA residence and on his person was the safest place.   The BS charges on Mag limits and configuration are unjust on face value, just a way to trap citizens.   Real criminals wouldn't have even been charged, and or plea-bargained down.     Lots of details are left out, regardless,  it is most certain he won't be treated justly in this Democrat-Run State.

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Still happy I got out...

When I drove back from FLETC with my duty gun on me... felt like I was doing something wrong when I stopped to take a leak at the first rest area on the NJ Turnpike. Knew the laws, and knew that credentials and duty gun is as good as anything else (hell, they ran us through training to fight in an airplane because they want Federal L/E carrying up there)... but that state just makes you feel like a criminal with anything related to a firearm. I was down there for about a week, which I switched over to my 642-1... and while it became second nature to have a gun on me, I still was worrying about it. While civilians not being able to carry is an injustice, it’s sad when L/E question it, because of years of being told what’s “wrong.”

Just got my ME license, and my FFL-03 was already submitted for a change of address... which I have a Brazilian S&W 1937 (later version of the 1917... .45 ACP) waiting on its return. Did bring up some of my toys from PA, and hopefully will have a few more guns up here between now and Christmas. Definitely need to get my .45 AR, as 20 rounders are on the way.

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On 9/14/2019 at 10:51 PM, Maksim said:

Seriously... if this guy was a Black 35 year old, would people still support him?  Or to the same extent?

 

I am sorry if I am interpreting this wrong,  but are you suggesting by this statement that I am somehow only supporting the knucklehead because he is an old white guy?  If so you kinda in a round about way indicating I might be racist....  ;)

I could care less his race if he is exercising his Constitutional Right and having them infringed upon.

 

We get it that the guy used poor judgement, but this can and could be a slap on the wrist and not what it is turning out to be.

 

Any one of us could be next for some minor infraction....just sayin.

 

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@USRifle30Cal It never ceases to amaze me the quality of 2nd Amendment interpretation here on this forum.  Some want this guy to never see daylight again.  Complete ASSHATS!  You people wanna know why NJ is goin' down the shitter as far as gun laws are concerned?  It's because with only a partial story & SOME facts you're willing to fill-in the rest all on your own and throw a fellow gun owner under Da Bus!  Why?  Because he might have a CCW & you don't?  Because he was "careless" in leaving a gun case out to see?

What exactly was his crime & who got hurt?

I spoke to a Cop friend yesterday.  A lll%er.  NO way he would have jammed this guy up.  He would have told him to go straight back to PA!

Forums are a double-edged sword.  Everybody thinks they're an expert and half the time they themselves don't know the exemptions!

We're in the process of reaching out to this fellow's lawyer to see IF they want publicity or not.

It's Monday, so let the Monday morning quarterbacking continue.

I'm OUT!

~R

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

It never ceases to amaze me the quality of 2nd Amendment interpretation here on this forum.  Some want this guy to never see daylight again.  Complete ASSHATS!  You people wanna know why NJ is goin' down the shitter as far as gun laws are concerned?  It's because with only a partial story & SOME facts you're willing to fill-in the rest all on your own and throw a fellow gun owner under Da Bus!  Why?  Because he might have a CCW & you don't?  Because he was "careless" in leaving a gun case out to see?

What exactly was his crime & who got hurt? 

Good god, thank you for saying this! Our NJ gun laws are so bloody vague even NJ gun owners don't understand them... now we expect people in adjoining states to be experts, too? :facepalm: The sheer complexity of our laws.. the fact that we are "allowed" our guns based on staying within narrow exemptions... clearly shows that the laws weren't designed to protect the rights of ordinary citizens OR to prevent crime. Instead, they were designed to jam up ordinary gun owners for stupid, but honest mistakes - even those with zero criminal intent - and then throw them into a cell followed by a long, costly court battle... and we have seen that happening here, time and time again! 

Was Shaneen Allen a threat to anyone? Nope! Yeah, remember her? Thrown in a cell, lost her job, separated from her kids. That was an outrage. Was this a guy a threat? I'm guessing not!  And yet he's facing a potential 28 years in prison. We've become a Gestapo state - let's not cheer that fact on (like spectators at the Roman Coliseum screaming for blood). 

 

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

@USRifle30Cal It never ceases to amaze me the quality of 2nd Amendment interpretation here on this forum.  Some want this guy to never see daylight again.  Complete ASSHATS!  You people wanna know why NJ is goin' down the shitter as far as gun laws are concerned?  It's because with only a partial story & SOME facts you're willing to fill-in the rest all on your own and throw a fellow gun owner under Da Bus!  Why?  Because he might have a CCW & you don't?  Because he was "careless" in leaving a gun case out to see?

What exactly was his crime & who got hurt?

I spoke to a Cop friend yesterday.  A lll%er.  NO way he would have jammed this guy up.  He would have told him to go straight back to PA!

Forums are a double-edged sword.  Everybody thinks they're an expert and half the time they themselves don't know the exemptions!

We're in the process of reaching out to this fellow's lawyer to see IF they want publicity or not.

It's Monday, so let the Monday morning quarterbacking continue.

I'm OUT!

~R

Werd

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I like to imagine that every time the NJ 2A community got wind of a case like this one, or Shaneen Allen’s ,or the utility worker from down South (can’t remember the name at the moment), or Brian Aitken where there was an violation of “administrative” firearms law, with no accompanying “actual” crime or criminal intent, that there were protests outside the jail if they were held, protests at the prosecutor’s office if they continued to press charges, protests outside the  courthouse if they went to trial...

It’s a nice thought.

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23 minutes ago, DirtyDigz said:

I like to imagine that every time the NJ 2A community got wind of a case like this one, or Shaneen Allen’s ,or the utility worker from down South (can’t remember the name at the moment), or Brian Aitken where there was an violation of “administrative” firearms law, with no accompanying “actual” crime or criminal intent, that there were protests outside the jail if they were held, protests at the prosecutor’s office if they continued to press charges, protests outside the  courthouse if they went to trial...

It’s a nice thought.

These meat wads here have been ass raped slowly.. centimeters at a time.

embrace the metric system!

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6 hours ago, DirtyDigz said:

I like to imagine that every time the NJ 2A community got wind of a case like this one, or Shaneen Allen’s ,or the utility worker from down South (can’t remember the name at the moment), or Brian Aitken where there was an violation of “administrative” firearms law, with no accompanying “actual” crime or criminal intent, that there were protests outside the jail if they were held, protests at the prosecutor’s office if they continued to press charges, protests outside the  courthouse if they went to trial...

It’s a nice thought.

Gimmie a few bus loads of Democrats I can pay to protest and we'll get RESULTS!  Ask gun owners to protest and all they want to do is show-up on a weekend when no one is in Trenton, AND it can't interfere with their weekend PLANS!

Ask gun owners to go protest and we'll need toilets on the buses, exotic diet waters, gluten-free snacks and door-to-door transportation.  Half will bail on you if it's colder than 60 or warmer than 78 degrees.  

Martin Luther King HAD A DREAM!  Here's mine:  One out of 10 NJ gun owners joins the Coalition & stays a member!

That's 100K gun owners at $50 per = $5 MILLION bucks a year in just dues.  After administrative costs, wearables & postage you'd still have over a MILLION $ annual budget (I'm being conservative here) just for Public Relations, Billboards, Radio spots, etc., etc.  

What everybody on this forum has to ask themselves is when their dues are DUE so they don't lapse.  Cause the sumbitches should ALL be members (like YOU are) already, RIGHT?

~R

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1 hour ago, Smokin .50 said:

What everybody on this forum has to ask themselves is when their dues are DUE so they don't lapse.  Cause the sumbitches should ALL be members (like YOU are) already, RIGHT?

Guilty as charged - I gotta check to see if my CNJFO membership is still active.  On it now.

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13 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

I am sorry if I am interpreting this wrong,  but are you suggesting by this statement that I am somehow only supporting the knucklehead because he is an old white guy?

Maks is remembering when we didn't care about Shaneen Allen because she's black...oh wait, he's misremembering.

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10 minutes ago, WP22 said:

Maks is remembering when we didn't care about Shaneen Allen because she's black...oh wait, he's misremembering.

Oh stop it... Shaneen's case is very much different than this one... 

I am talking about every other gun case where guns are part of the charge.

But yes, without a doubt... there would not be as much outrage if this was not an older white guy.

I am not at all talking about why NJ gun laws are stupid or unjust... you have to be some kind of stupid to drive to work with guns on your front seat, to and from work.

Not even criminals are that stupid.

Yes, let's challenge gun laws but do we challenge them on the backs of blatantly ridiculous actors?

And is this case going to change gun laws?

Hell no.  The BEST case is that the charges will be dropped or amended and the guy does not spend time in jail.

In the mean time, until Supreme Court decides, the best the community can do is get more people comfortable with guns and go after local communities not abiding by gun laws, i.e. suing towns, etc.

Until then... remind me again how any of these cases have helped improve NJ gun laws?  

What has Aikten done?  Sheneen?  

Has NJ started issuing CCW permits to law abiding people?

The majority of the money 2A groups are collecting should be spent on tangible ways of changing the landscape... getting new shooters and buying off politicians in a position to change.

But seriously, once again we are making this guy seem like he was wronged and purposefully singled out.  

And seriously... LEO singled him out for having PA plates?  Rather than driving like a moron and passing/changing lanes without a turn signal?  

Singled out would be driving in NJ and pulled over for having PA plates obeying all speed limits and laws.

More people should be pulled over and ticketed for driving like morons.

Driving like a moron while having guns visible on your front seat?  Special kind.

Does he deserve 28 years in jail?  No.... community service, driver's ed and his loss of gun buying rights will be hard enough punishment for him.

But no, no way this changes gun rights and laws in NJ. 

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19 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

@USRifle30Cal It never ceases to amaze me the quality of 2nd Amendment interpretation here on this forum.  Some want this guy to never see daylight again.  Complete ASSHATS!  You people wanna know why NJ is goin' down the shitter as far as gun laws are concerned?  It's because with only a partial story & SOME facts you're willing to fill-in the rest all on your own and throw a fellow gun owner under Da Bus!  Why?  Because he might have a CCW & you don't?  Because he was "careless" in leaving a gun case out to see?

What exactly was his crime & who got hurt?

I spoke to a Cop friend yesterday.  A lll%er.  NO way he would have jammed this guy up.  He would have told him to go straight back to PA!

Forums are a double-edged sword.  Everybody thinks they're an expert and half the time they themselves don't know the exemptions!

We're in the process of reaching out to this fellow's lawyer to see IF they want publicity or not.

It's Monday, so let the Monday morning quarterbacking continue.

I'm OUT!

~R

@Smokin .50....  ^^^^^  Preach

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7 hours ago, Maksim said:

 

But yes, without a doubt... there would not be as much outrage if this was not an older white guy.

19 hours ago, Smokin .50 said:

@USRifle30Cal It never ceases to amaze me the quality of 2nd Amendment interpretation here on this forum.  Some want this guy to never see daylight again.  Complete ASSHATS!  You people wanna know why NJ is goin' down the shitter as far as gun laws are concerned?  It's because with only a partial story & SOME facts you're willing to fill-in the rest all on your own and throw a fellow gun owner under Da Bus!  Why?  Because he might have a CCW & you don't?  Because he was "careless" in leaving a gun case out to see?

What exactly was his crime & who got hurt?

I spoke to a Cop friend yesterday.  A lll%er.  NO way he would have jammed this guy up.  He would have told him to go straight back to PA!

Forums are a double-edged sword.  Everybody thinks they're an expert and half the time they themselves don't know the exemptions!

We're in the process of reaching out to this fellow's lawyer to see IF they want publicity or not.

It's Monday, so let the Monday morning quarterbacking continue.

I'm OUT!

~R

@Maksim.....  wow....dude really?

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

Did he make a mistake, yup.

 

Yet your frying him....  lets pray to God that you never leave a suppressor out, or some other cool toy heading into Jersey or other prohibited place.

 

@Smokin .50....  ^^^^^  Preach

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17 hours ago, Mrs. Peel said:

Good god, thank you for saying this! Our NJ gun laws are so bloody vague even NJ gun owners don't understand them... now we expect people in adjoining states to be experts, too? :facepalm: The sheer complexity of our laws.. the fact that we are "allowed" our guns based on staying within narrow exemptions... clearly shows that the laws weren't designed to protect the rights of ordinary citizens OR to prevent crime. Instead, they were designed to jam up ordinary gun owners for stupid, but honest mistakes - even those with zero criminal intent - and then throw them into a cell followed by a long, costly court battle... and we have seen that happening here, time and time again! 

Was Shaneen Allen a threat to anyone? Nope! Yeah, remember her? Thrown in a cell, lost her job, separated from her kids. That was an outrage. Was this a guy a threat? I'm guessing not!  And yet he's facing a potential 28 years in prison. We've become a Gestapo state - let's not cheer that fact on (like spectators at the Roman Coliseum screaming for blood). 

 

.... @Mrs. Peel...  Hits walk off home run...crowd goes wild...  :)

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On 9/16/2019 at 1:05 PM, Mrs. Peel said:

Good god, thank you for saying this! Our NJ gun laws are so bloody vague even NJ gun owners don't understand them... now we expect people in adjoining states to be experts, too?

Some may be. Just not the ones in this case. Storing guns right next to him, riding around with hollowpoints for no legal purpose, riding around with guns while not going to the range.

Of all the cases of people from out of state getting arrested, THIS is where people want to make their stand?

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