Hypothetical question/scenario

[PeteF 1,044]

I think we've all lost our minds.  If a dog is attacking a child and the best way to stop the attack, under the circumstances, is to shoot the dog, shoot the dog.  

Why is there any other thought?  Fuck it, try me.  I'll ask for a jury trial, good luck getting 12 people too convict.

[PeteF 1,044]

Are you a Man of Action or merely a PUSSY?  Do you freeze like a deer in the headlights?

 

Screw the phone, I'll call AFTER I've done what I can.  All the Cops are good for in this instance is to do the paperwork anyway...........so what's another minute or two??

 

I have a BAT, a set of BALLS and a GUN, so I'll get the job done!  My nephew was the victim of a dog attack.  He needed plastic surgery after 1/2 an ear was chewed-off.  I've lived through the outcome of doing nothing (I wasn't around when it took place!).  So I'll always do what ever I can to help!

 

Not saying do nothing, but a call to 911 will get an ambulance for the kid quicker.

[siderman 1,138]

I keep a bat in all my vehicles. Never know when a game may pop up. Or a crazed dog.......

[fatty 241]

if my son was in danger I wouldn't hesitate to do ANYTHING to save him.  i'd rot in prison for the rest of my life as long as i know hes okay

[vladtepes 1,060]

the damage issue is more of a concern than the legal issue... what happens legally is moot if you save the kid.. but you are investing an awful lot of faith in your shooting skills to assume a clean hit when the victim is rolling around on the ground being attacked...  at that close of range do you even know what your round will do? will it sail right through the target? sometimes I feel like we dont think things out clearly... ok I get it.. legally who cares.. but all you that would grab your gun and shoot the dog... seriously? you really feel comfortable with that shot? especially when there are far lest risky means to break contact..  

[Hooligan 0]

Personally, if I'm grappling with a dog or anything less than a grizzly bear, I don't want someone to run up and start shooting it.  

 

I might bring a shotgun (fewer legal hurdles I think) and kick/buttstroke the dog to disengage it from the child, then shoot it when it was safe to do so.  Otherwise I'd use pepper spray or an improvised blunt weapon.  

[checko 180]

the damage issue is more of a concern than the legal issue... what happens legally is moot if you save the kid.. but you are investing an awful lot of faith in your shooting skills to assume a clean hit when the victim is rolling around on the ground being attacked... at that close of range do you even know what your round will do? will it sail right through the target? sometimes I feel like we dont think things out clearly... ok I get it.. legally who cares.. but all you that would grab your gun and shoot the dog... seriously? you really feel comfortable with that shot? especially when there are far lest risky means to break contact..

 

Dude its not like anyone is insinuating I would lean out my front door and start popping off rounds all willy nilly. I would have to assume that anyone else in this thread who would think to use a gun would do everything humanly possible to separate the target from any bystanders. Isn't that part of basic training for firearm safety? At the point of life or death I hope the training I've received above and beyond the basic rules would kick in and save someone's life.

 

 

I know im not gonna stand there pulling my pud hoping a giant stick falls out of the sky for me to pound it with. Especially if said stick doesn't have the desired effect and I have a pisses off canine looking to eat my face.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Dude its not like anyone is insinuating I would lean out my front door and start popping off rounds all willy nilly. I would have to assume that anyone else in this thread who would think to use a gun would do everything humanly possible to separate the target from any bystanders. Isn't that part of basic training for firearm safety? At the point of life or death I hope the training I've received above and beyond the basic rules would kick in and save someone's life.

 

 

I know im not gonna stand there pulling my pud hoping a giant stick falls out of the sky for me to pound it with. Especially if said stick doesn't have the desired effect and I have a pisses off canine looking to eat my face.

 

 

I dont know why someone would even think gun.. when the attack is occurring... if the idea is to stop the attack.. which is what it should be.. there are far better options than a gun.. hit any dog full force with a bat.. golf club.. whatever.. and you are going to likely cause it to break contact.. thats why I am confused by the whole "I would run over there and shoot it" talk.. 

 

I can not think of any instance where I would prefer a gun over something that I could strike with in a more controlled manner.. 

[checko 180]

Who said a strike would stop the attack ? What do you do when the animal is now attacking you. A club like weapon doesn't help you at all when there is a threat closing ground on you faster than you can swing.

[vladtepes 1,060]

Who said a strike would stop the attack ? What do you do when the animal is now attacking you. A club like weapon doesn't help you at all when there is a threat closing ground on you faster than you can swing.

 

 

you are right.. better to just assume a sniper position on your roof and heroically save the day by shooting it down with a rifle.. 

[checko 180]

you are right.. better to just assume a sniper position on your roof and heroically save the day by shooting it down with a rifle..

OK that's a bit dramatic no?

[vladtepes 1,060]

OK that's a bit dramatic no?

 

 

any more dramatic than running out of your house with gun in hand, shooting a dog in a residential area while it is attacking a child?

 

maybe on a farm in the middle of nowhere.. you run out fire a shotgun round in a safe direction to startle the dog.. and then shoot it.. sure.. maybe?

but in most instances I see even bringing a gun into the mix as being unnecessary.. and potentially more trouble (and danger) than its worth thats all.. 

 

I think using a gun to defend your life where there are no other better options is the move to make.. 

 

I just dont know that a dog attacking someone is one of those situations.. 

[checko 180]

any more dramatic than running out of your house with gun in hand, shooting a dog in a residential area while it is attacking a child?

 

maybe on a farm in the middle of nowhere.. you run out fire a shotgun round in a safe direction to startle the dog.. and then shoot it.. sure.. maybe?

but in most instances I see even bringing a gun into the mix as being unnecessary.. and potentially more trouble (and danger) than its worth thats all..

 

Ithink using a gun to defend your life where there are no other better options is the move to make..

 

I just dont know that a dog attacking someone is one of those situations..

You're equating a bringing a readily available handgun to a dangerous situation to potentially save a persons life at most likely arms distance with setting up a snipers nest on top of my house in some self gratifying heroic manner.

Ridiculous.

Im glad you think you can Sammy Sosa a (hypothetically) powerful animal into submission and have no fear that you can fend off said animal with your trusty Louisville Slugger should you be attacked yourself.

 

There's obviously no reason to continue this conversation with you.

[GRIZ 3,369]

Plain and simple..... you do WHATEVER it takes to save the child...... WHATEVER IT TAKES

The correct answer. The time it takes to make a 911 call may mean the victim goes to the morgue instead of the hospital. Taking time to find the "best" weapon may bring the same result. I would arm myself with whatever was at hand, be it gun, bat, knife, spoon, pot or if need be bare hands. If I were using a gun I would probably use a contact shot across the hindquarters which would certainly get the animal's attention and minimize chances of injuring the victim.

 

For those that worry about being charged with shooting, first thats highly unlikely. Contrary to what many believe the police and prosecutors are not waiting to get someone locked up and convicted for any offense. More importantly, if you lack the moral compass and courage to take action in a situation like this then just call 911 and sit back and see what happens...and live with it. Sometimes you have to do right thing even if it means going to jail for it. Just be sure that you can comfort yourself with the fact you did the right thing while you sit in your cell. Be sure it was worth it.

 

If you can just call 911 and watch please don't cry about not being able to get a carry permit in NJ. You mayhave to watch some old lady get her face smashed into the sidewalk because you don't want to get involved. Better yet, dont own a gun and that minimizes your chances of a gun getting you in trobule

[Smokin .50 1,907]

The correct answer. The time it takes to make a 911 call may mean the victim goes to the morgue instead of the hospital. Taking time to find the "best" weapon may bring the same result. I would arm myself with whatever was at hand, be it gun, bat, knife, spoon, pot or if need be bare hands. If I were using a gun I would probably use a contact shot across the hindquarters which would certainly get the animal's attention and minimize chances of injuring the victim.

 

For those that worry about being charged with shooting, first thats highly unlikely. Contrary to what many believe the police and prosecutors are not waiting to get someone locked up and convicted for any offense. More importantly, if you lack the moral compass and courage to take action in a situation like this then just call 911 and sit back and see what happens...and live with it. Sometimes you have to do right thing even if it means going to jail for it. Just be sure that you can comfort yourself with the fact you did the right thing while you sit in your cell. Be sure it was worth it.

 

If you can just call 911 and watch please don't cry about not being able to get a carry permit in NJ. You mayhave to watch some old lady get her face smashed into the sidewalk because you don't want to get involved. Better yet, dont own a gun and that minimizes your chances of a gun getting you in trobule

^^^^^BEST answer!

 

Like I stated, call the authorities AFTER the situation has been addressed!  Know you ACTED as quickly as possible to do the RIGHT thing!  

 

Not directed at anyone in general:

 

IMHO, in general, most of these "What would you do IF" threads tend to get folks riled-up AT each other without really addressing the obvious:  A complete lack of training of advanced firearms technique and use of the various non-lethal means to engage an adversary.  Chest pounding from Keyboard Commandos that might have ZERO guns and/or limited experience (I shoot at paper with rented guns at a commercial range while standing in a port).  So a two or three line response to the scenario can easily be misinterpreted by the members here, thus compounding the chest-pumping.  The reality is if this were to happen and you decide to engage be it with fist, foot, bat, knife, spray (pepper, WASP, etc) or gun, know that you did the RIGHT THING and at least tried.  Also know that if you stop to even think about the consequences of doing SOMETHING to end the mauling you're NOT the gun-toting Action Hero you paint yourself to be on this forum IMHO!    

[Scorpio64 5,163]

How much time does it take to call 911 on your way out the door and say, we need an ambulance NOW at (address) and then drop the phone?  The five  to ten minutes head start the ambulance has means the victim will be receiving treatment that much sooner.  I do not think anyone here suggested not intervening in some fashion, it seemed pretty unanimous that some method, whether it be manly man hand to pitbull combat or baseball bat or firearm should be used .  It will do little good to have stopped the attack just to watch the victim bleed out while you run for a phone, that is if you have not become the second victim.

[ogfarmer 138]

Man accidentally shoots 7-year-old boy being attacked by dog

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/man-accidentally-shoots-7-year-old-boy-being-attacked-by-dog/

[PeteF 1,044]

Man accidentally shoots 7-year-old boy being attacked by dog

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/man-accidentally-shoots-7-year-old-boy-being-attacked-by-dog/

Just saw thar. Not so hypothetical after all.

[Newtonian 453]

My Utah carry instructor at HG gave us a 20-30 minute lecture on a closely related topic. The question was how far do you go to protect the lives of others given the ramifications of drawing and killing someone? He suggested making a list of people you'd do that for.

 

In this state, where carry is not allowed, you are in even bigger trouble for pulling a gun while not on your property. There must be many cases of someone with a gun in a non-exempt location doing this sort of thing, or even protecting his/her own life. What generally happens to them?

[glockamole 0]

Must of had the same Utah instructor at HG. If it was my kid on my lawn I would do anything I had to. If im in my house and a kid just happened to br on my lawn being attacked I would go out to help and if I was already carrying at home I would have it. If while trying to get the dog off the kid it came after me and was away from the child I would shoot it if it was attacking me and I couldn't get it to stop.

 

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

 

[remixer 1,645]

I wonder how a 911 operator would handle the call from a gun owner reporting a dog in the process of attacking a child.. Would the operator tell the caller do not bring a gun outside.

[PeteF 1,044]

I wonder how a 911 operator would handle the call from a gun owner reporting a dog in the process of attacking a child.. Would the operator tell the caller do not bring a gun outside.

I imagine the answer would be along the lines of "Do what you have to do"

[remixer 1,645]

I imagine the answer would be along the lines of "Do what you have to do"

 

One would hope that would be the answer.

[Scorpio64 5,163]

I imagine the answer would be along the lines of "Do what you have to do"

I've listened to many 911 recordings from people in SD situations..  Do what you feel you need to do seems to be the usual answer.  I believe, as a matter of policy, 911 operators cannot give specific instructions regarding SD.  I've never heard an operator say shoot the attacker, nor have I heard them say don't shoot.  The main purpose of a 911 operators existence is to gather information and contact the appropriate authorities.  In this particular scenario all the operator needs to know is that someone is being mauled by a dog, the location  and that immediate medical attention will be required.  End of conversation.  By dropping the phone while the connection is still live, it gives the operator a beacon, so to speak.

 

In any event, using a firearm should always be the last resort. If you happen to have a bat or golf club right next to you, grab it as your first choice.  If all you have is a firearm, grab it since it is your nearest best option.  If you have a bat in the garage behind the x-mass decorations and you have a gun right next to you, well, it's not difficult to figure out what to do.  Is a gun the best choice, well the answer to that is; It depends.   The story about the kid that was shot in the ass while being rescued from a mauling.  Lets say the guy didn't have a gun.  What would have happened then?  Would the kid have been killed by the dog, would the dog break off the attack and run away?  It's hard to tell.  All one can do is assess the situation and make a decision on how to act without hesitation.  A bad decision is better than no decision at all.  There are no "perfect" decisions, just decisions that may or may not work out better than some other course of action.  You cannot predict the outcome either way with 100% certainty.

[Avalanche 42]

I'd call 911 and then run out to help, I would not bring any firearms.

 

Anyone who has faith that the prosecutors office will "do the right thing" is out of their mind. 

[JohnnyB 4,326]

Unfortunately, for similar reasons as a gun, it's risky to the victim    I think the bat would be the better choice.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/09/man-accidentally-shoots-7-year-old-boy-being-attacked-by-dog/?intcmp=latestnews

 

See the above link.  I would get the bat out first!!!

[vladtepes 1,060]

[sarcasm] so wait.. someone saw a kid getting attacked by a dog... deployed a firearm.. and accidentally shot the kid? i almost cant believe it.. [/sarcasm] 

[Handyman 5,682]

Stay inside, call 911 and let them save the day. That's what our esteemed legislators think should happen, right?

[vladtepes 1,060]

Stay inside, call 911 and let them save the day. That's what our esteemed legislators think should happen, right?

 

who said to do that?

[Underdog 1,593]

Finally, I agree with GTO Nut. 

 

I think it would be up to the district attorney who could decide whether or not to charge you.  They might lack common sense or sympathy for a felllow citizen, but these lawyers have the discretion.  And to your detriment in NJ, that would be political and a given to charge you, as culling your freedom is much more important than the actual safety of the child, as evidenced by many of the laws passed in NJ to promote the revolving criminal door and the agenda of the state to go after and control the private, otherwise lawful citizen.   In fact, you would most certainly be charged for child endangerment, cruelty to animals, a crime using a gun, and  a disorderly offense.  I would imagine that anything you would use, whether it be baseball bat, knife, rock, etc. would be a chargeable offense.  I am not sure if they would all carry a felony charge, which anything involving a gun would in NJ.  So, in the fleeting moments to react,  you would have to decide just how dangerous the attack was, how close you were to it, and what tools you might have to help you.  If it was a Maltese attacking a teenager that might be a little different than an Akita attacking a four year old.   As a father, I would do whatever I could to protect the child without thinking about my safety or legality.  Realistically, though, I would more likely have at my immediate disposal something else to use, a hard shoe,a kitchen knife, a crossbow, or a rock, or some wire, etc. rather than a firearm.