Helped Another NJ Gun Law Victim Today!

[Howard 538]

1 hour ago, mustang69 said:

Ummmm, hoping someone gets punished for an idiotic law just because you couldn't get away with it too?  We're not in third grade any more. Hoping this woman gets jammed up with a felony conviction accomplishes absolutely nothing.  How about we hope shen gets treated fairly because it's the right thing to do?  This should be advertised everywhere CCW is a common everyday thing.  Maybe that will help with national reciprocity, because NJ laws won't be changed from within.  Make her the poster child for who carries outside NJ - you know, teachers, grandmothers, utility linemen, plumbers - everyday folks that aren't a threat to anyone except the "bad guys".  There should be a map of the states where people have been jammed up in NJ, sending it to every rep from those states to support national reciprocity. 

Well everyone can have their own opinion.  Mine is either you enforce a law, or you change it.  You don't make case by case exceptions.  Not far from me there are two churches both on streets that don't allow parking.  In front of one they park there for church every Sunday morning and nobody gets a ticket.  In front of the other one the sign says no parking anytime except Sunday morning and they legally park.  At the first one everyone that parks there on Sunday should get a ticket, not because I have anything against people going to church but because the laws need to be enforced.  Either change the law, like they did at the second church, or enforce it.  To turn the other way for certain people is wrong to all the other people that do the same thing but at times when you decide to enforce it.  

 

These gun laws are plain stupid and do nothing to protect anyone.  They are just as stupid as it would be to not honor driver's licenses from certain states.

[carl_g 568]

5 minutes ago, Howard said:

Well everyone can have their own opinion.  Mine is either you enforce a law, or you change it.  You don't make case by case exceptions.  Not far from me there are two churches both on streets that don't allow parking.  In front of one they park there for church every Sunday morning and nobody gets a ticket.  In front of the other one the sign says no parking anytime except Sunday morning and they legally park.  At the first one everyone that parks there on Sunday should get a ticket, not because I have anything against people going to church but because the laws need to be enforced.  Either change the law, like they did at the second church, or enforce it.  To turn the other way for certain people is wrong to all the other people that do the same thing but at times when you decide to enforce it.  

 

These gun laws are plain stupid and do nothing to protect anyone.  They are just as stupid as it would be to not honor driver's licenses from certain states.

Yeah everyone can have one even if it's wrong like yours.

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

14 hours ago, capt14k said:

You nailed it

 

 

Also even the good guys hands are often tied due to dashcams. A buddy of mine was charged with destruction of evidence 2 years after the fact for letting a group of kids dump their pot on the ground. Luckily for him it was "fake"marijuana.

 

 

 

 

Look - I am not bashing cops - I have many friends who are current and/or retired and they are aces - YES their hands are tied and yes THEY only enforce the law.  However, some latitude can and should be given.

 

It is very dicey to do so - it could very well mean your ass in the klink as an officer.  But by the same token, where is the line drawn?  Where is the line drawn for good policing, good stops and good questioning - seeking the 'truth' etc.  It is very easy for me to sit here and type all this about what could or should be done on a traffic stop - but seriously - 59yr old woman?  makes you wonder what the eff is going on in this state.

 

 

[CAL. .30 M1 2,101]

14 hours ago, JohnnyB said:

 

I don't understand the blanket statements about cops wanting to screw us. All cops are not that way and it's unfair to lump them all together!

 Attitudes like this only serve to widen the divide of that thin blue line.

Brother -  that line is so wide you are never going to patch it up - it is a fact of life in this state...... 

They are people just like us with aspirations, foibles etc.  If they can collar you to advance themselves they will do so - even for the smallest hiccup.

A had a friend that was with the 120th in NY - she was a Sergeant - she told me once 'never talk to cops - nothing good will ever come of it '

Another Detective - Korean war vet - homicide and gangs out of the 5th in NYC - " if you are stopped don't be a dick but do not answer any questions - ask them am I being detained or am I free to go.  Cops love to fish...... "

 

I have taken those two statements to heart - it is not a job I would want to do, or want a family member to do - i give them all a lot of credit for doing it - *but* there is a divide.

 

Sadly, final story - a retired officer from the Bx, worked the beat with a 38 Smith night stick and the candy store phone for backup - he told me cops today are not like they used to be - on a recent traffic stop he asked the officers - could any courtesy be extended to a retired officer - the leo in question laughed said - ' not in today's day and age '

 

So yes there is a line and if you not on the blue line of it - you are truly sh*t out of luck - and even if you are you can still get pretty jammed up with no help to you at all.

 

 

 

 

[capt14k 2,052]

 
Look - I am not bashing cops - I have many friends who are current and/or retired and they are aces - YES their hands are tied and yes THEY only enforce the law.  However, some latitude can and should be given.
 
It is very dicey to do so - it could very well mean your ass in the klink as an officer.  But by the same token, where is the line drawn?  Where is the line drawn for good policing, good stops and good questioning - seeking the 'truth' etc.  It is very easy for me to sit here and type all this about what could or should be done on a traffic stop - but seriously - 59yr old woman?  makes you wonder what the eff is going on in this state.
 
 

Agreed.


It was a bad stop. Then the bad stop got worse due to their "investigative work" because they saw her CCW Permit. That does not give them a right to search. Hopefully a good lawyer will get it thrown out even if she did give permission to search on the grounds they should have never stopped her and never should have asked to search her and they coerced her into giving permission, but then again courts have ruled that certain coercion is ok and have greatly reduced the threshold for what is entrapment too.

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[Fred2 367]

22 minutes ago, capt14k said:

Agreed.


It was a bad stop. Then the bad stop got worse due to their "investigative work" because they saw her CCW Permit. That does not give them a right to search. Hopefully a good lawyer will get it thrown out even if she did give permission to search on the grounds they should have never stopped her and never should have asked to search her and they coerced her into giving permission, but then again courts have ruled that certain coercion is ok and have greatly reduced the threshold for what is entrapment too.

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But she had an air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror!

Those little green trees are the sign of the devil.

[capt14k 2,052]

But she had an air freshener hanging from the rear view mirror!
Those little green trees are the sign of the devil.

Damn was it an air freshener? I was so hoping it was Rosary Beads so it would fit the narrative of the Gestapo even better.

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[mossburger 406]

On 12/28/2017 at 2:59 PM, Howard said:

While this sounds like a nice act of kindness, there is a flip side to it.  Why on earth should out of state residents get better treatment than actual residents of the socialist people's republic of New Jermany.  Nothing against any individuals, but I would like to see the full force of the law used on all these out of state residents with them given the maximum sentences.  Then and only then might something be done to change these laws.  Why should you or I face the cold hand of the law but those that don't live her get off - that is plain wrong.  The law should be the law, and most of these gun laws should not be the law.

I have to say I completely agree. No I don't want to see anyone in jail for exercising their constitutional right. But as long as the courts, cops and lawyers can keep these quiet nothing will ever change for those of us who live here. Hate to say it, but we need martyrs. Maybe if these out of staters get slapped with a 7 year sentence you'll see some Federal intervention or a case that can make it to a higher court and strike these bullshit laws down.

[Smokin .50 1,907]

^^^^It's the "BUT" that makes me feel all warm inside, NOT!

[voyager9 3,434]

26 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

^^^^It's the "BUT" that makes me feel all warm inside, NOT!

As a second amendment advocate in NJ, the above statement certainly applies. Even without context. 

[carl_g 568]

On 12/30/2017 at 10:01 PM, mossburger said:

I have to say I completely agree. No I don't want to see anyone in jail for exercising their constitutional right. But as long as the courts, cops and lawyers can keep these quiet nothing will ever change for those of us who live here. Hate to say it, but we need martyrs. Maybe if these out of staters get slapped with a 7 year sentence you'll see some Federal intervention or a case that can make it to a higher court and strike these bullshit laws down.

You have to be fucking kidding me right?

[JohnnyB 4,326]

Please let this thread die with 2017! NJ gun laws are unconstitutional and just plain wrong in every way. NO AMERICAN deserves to be treated the way NJ treats them and NONE OF US should ever wish ANY innocent victim of their fucked up gun laws ill! You might as well say "Way to go Jersey, I support your locking up a 59 year old Grandmother for a few years to set an example"! After all, she's from Florida, who gives a fuck about her? 

I DO!

Stand together and fight the fight for all Americans unjustly victimized by this stupid state! Or we all lose!

[mossburger 406]

22 minutes ago, JohnnyB said:

Please let this thread die with 2017! NJ gun laws are unconstitutional and just plain wrong in every way. NO AMERICAN deserves to be treated the way NJ treats them and NONE OF US should ever wish ANY innocent victim of their fucked up gun laws ill! You might as well say "Way to go Jersey, I support your locking up a 59 year old Grandmother for a few years to set an example"! After all, she's from Florida, who gives a fuck about her? 

I DO!

Stand together and fight the fight for all Americans unjustly victimized by this stupid state! Or we all lose!

Except NO ONE is fighting for you or me. We're sitting here concerned about this FL citizen but down in FL they just chalk us up as a bunch of morons with dumb gun laws and laugh as they bump fire their AK pistol into the swamp. They don't care if our laws ever change, no one outside NJ does. Let a couple people get locked up here and watch it become national news, a national issue. Then watch other senators and judges start to actually care, and strike down or change these laws.

[Zeke 5,504]

41 minutes ago, mossburger said:

Except NO ONE is fighting for you or me. We're sitting here concerned about this FL citizen but down in FL they just chalk us up as a bunch of morons with dumb gun laws and laugh as they bump fire their AK pistol into the swamp. They don't care if our laws ever change, no one outside NJ does. Let a couple people get locked up here and watch it become national news, a national issue. Then watch other senators and judges start to actually care, and strike down or change these laws.

Change has to start somewhere, this is as good a place as any to institute change. I’m sure you agree

[HBecwithFn7 296]

56 minutes ago, mossburger said:

Except NO ONE is fighting for you or me. We're sitting here concerned about this FL citizen but down in FL they just chalk us up as a bunch of morons with dumb gun laws and laugh as they bump fire their AK pistol into the swamp. They don't care if our laws ever change, no one outside NJ does. Let a couple people get locked up here and watch it become national news, a national issue. Then watch other senators and judges start to actually care, and strike down or change these laws.

That's not true at all. We care deeply... because what happens in states like NJ doesn't stay in states like NJ! It finds its way down here, with all the people who migrate down here with their liberal ideas on how a state should run... We also don't want our FL citizens to be subject to that kind of trouble unnecessarily.  We are always trying to educate FL folks on the dangers of bringing weapons into NJ in violation of NJ law. 

Trust me.  We care.

[Bklynracer 1,265]

Wonder what happens in 2018 when Murphy doesn't pardon like Christy did. 

Maybe then other friendly states will have chime in to protect their own. 

 

That might start a few issues. 

[JohnnyB 4,326]

1 hour ago, mossburger said:

Except NO ONE is fighting for you or me. We're sitting here concerned about this FL citizen but down in FL they just chalk us up as a bunch of morons with dumb gun laws and laugh as they bump fire their AK pistol into the swamp. They don't care if our laws ever change, no one outside NJ does. Let a couple people get locked up here and watch it become national news, a national issue. Then watch other senators and judges start to actually care, and strike down or change these laws.

Bullshit! Look at the demographics of NJ......We will NOT change anything by ourselves! We need EVERY AMERICAN to help us fight. Alone, we don't stand a chance! Locking up innocent people in Jersey prisons will not make us friends, it will make us enemies! 

We have Murphy coming into office in a few short weeks and we need to get our shit together now! Time to stop fighting amongst each other and stand together! If we keep this petty bullshit up, we deserve what we get!

[JimB1 555]

5 hours ago, Bklynracer said:

Wonder what happens in 2018 when Murphy doesn't pardon like Christy did. 

Maybe then other friendly states will have chime in to protect their own. 

 

That might start a few issues. 

Well, if the Dems are going to hide their incompetence on the matter and negate the argument for reciprocity, what makes you think Murphy is going to stop pardoning out of state people like Christy did? He may even pardon more and come away looking great to people outside NJ. That’s the saddest part. He would look good to out of staters for “helping” with problems that his party caused to begin with while not actuallly doing anything to fix the problem laws for us in the state.

-Jim

[HBecwithFn7 296]

9 hours ago, Bklynracer said:

Wonder what happens in 2018 when Murphy doesn't pardon like Christy did. 

Maybe then other friendly states will have chime in to protect their own. 

 

That might start a few issues. 

They won't.... trust me.  Certainly not the State Govts.   Maybe private carry orgs (like GOA, State equivalents of NJ2AS, etc.) will rally.   But the "reward" has to be greater than the "risk."   And the risk here would be the backlash from MDA type groups, etc., and the voters that support them. The reward would be the support of pro-2A folks in re: getting the right people elected to office, or the addl. contributions and memberships to the private orgs.

Do the math... do we have the numbers that offer that kind of "active" support?

[1LtCAP 4,264]

for what it's worth........i would gather that much of the rest of the country has no clue how bad it is here. there's another forum i talk on. world wide. full of people from all walks...from a british socialist to guys in austrailia that keep telling us to never give up our rights like they did....

 

 

 anyway, one of them posted a thread titled "fuck new jersey". it's about this woman. shaneen came up. it also came up that her judge was the only person in his county with a ccw. i told them how it rolls here concerning that. his response?"i didn't know it was that bad there." if the avg citizen/gun owner doesn't know things are this bad......we'll never see any help from outside. and lets face it. for all of the (VERY MUCH APPRECIATED) efforts of people like smokin50.......we are well outnumbered here behind the enemy lines. without outside help we sadly are fighting a losing battle. now.....before any of you boners go jumping on me and putting words in my mouth.....i'm not saying we should give up. i'm saying we need outside help, and that we should be looking into/for that. i just have no clue how to do that.

[capt14k 2,052]

We absolutely need outside help, but not many people in Free States care about our plight. Their answer is move. The help and advice should come from places like CA. How many of our NJ 2A groups have contacted the groups in CA?

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[HBecwithFn7 296]

24 minutes ago, 1LtCAP said:

for what it's worth........i would gather that much of the rest of the country has no clue how bad it is here. there's another forum i talk on. world wide. full of people from all walks...from a british socialist to guys in austrailia that keep telling us to never give up our rights like they did....

 

 

 anyway, one of them posted a thread titled "fuck new jersey". it's about this woman. shaneen came up. it also came up that her judge was the only person in his county with a ccw. i told them how it rolls here concerning that. his response?"i didn't know it was that bad there." if the avg citizen/gun owner doesn't know things are this bad......we'll never see any help from outside. and lets face it. for all of the (VERY MUCH APPRECIATED) efforts of people like smokin50.......we are well outnumbered here behind the enemy lines. without outside help we sadly are fighting a losing battle. now.....before any of you boners go jumping on me and putting words in my mouth.....i'm not saying we should give up. i'm saying we need outside help, and that we should be looking into/for that. i just have no clue how to do that.

Precisely! It's why things like that which the OP reported occur. Because people who grew up in/live in free states have absolutely no idea what it is like, and are thus, by default, "in denial."  And that's when the get caught.  The Australian guy is absolutely correct. We must never give up those rights, and we must fight to ensure they are not "mis-interpreted" to our determent.

 

[Smokin .50 1,907]

5 minutes ago, HBecwithFn7 said:

They won't.... trust me.  Certainly not the State Govts.   Maybe private carry orgs (like GOA, State equivalents of NJ2AS, etc.) will rally.   But the "reward" has to be greater than the "risk."   And the risk here would be the backlash from MDA type groups, etc., and the voters that support them. The reward would be the support of pro-2A folks in re: getting the right people elected to office or the addl, contributions and memberships to the private orgs.

Do the math... do we have the numbers that offer that kind of "active" support?

Not addressed to you, but ONLY a general response to the highlighted sentence:

I highly doubt we have the numbers as evidenced by the actions of some here typing that they're willing to let a 59 yr old woman rot in jail!  Unless & until some of the Neanderthal thinking is expunged from our ranks, I fear we'll never be able to set-aside differences of OPINION and answer a call to ACTION!  Truth be told it's demoralizing and a huge distraction!

If tomorrow the Coalition decided to march on Trenton with pitchforks, and we advertised it on social media as well as the forum, a very small percentage of you would hear the sortie signal.  Why?  Because you're not a member of the Coalition or even bothered to sign-up with us to get a FREE email from us!  How effing STUPID is THAT?  Trying to communicate to "gun people" is worse than herding cats!  "No one showed me!"  & "No one told me!"  in today's world of instant communication doesn't cut it.  Stop acting like you're still in Kindergarten & register for the SORTIE SIGNALS of EVERY 2A group you can spell the letters of! 

I don't care if you don't like or agree with me or like or agree with a group, "my" group or ANY group!  In fact, I'm not here to be liked.  It's not my job.  My job is to INFORM.  My job is to suggest a pathway so as to enable you to STAY INFORMED.  My job is to "herd the cats"!  What you choose to do with the info, news, commentary of factual circumstances I type about are entirely up to YOU!  But whatever you do, don't come onto my "news broadcast" & suggest American Citizens spend 7 years in jail because YOU can't take your playtoz out & carry them!

If any of you come up with "ideas" on what I should be doing, be prepared to be asked to JOIN THE TEAM & get some playtime in and get that uniform DIRTY in this 24/7/365 football game of NJ's Second Amendment scene.  

What have YOU done for YOUR RIGHTS today?  Joined a 2A group?  Donated?  Wrote an article I can use?  Volunteered to join a committee?  Sign-up for a FREE effing email?  For Christ's sake, DO SOMETHING!

Signing this rant as tired & frustrated, yet VERY appreciative for everyone that cares enough to listen.  Cares enough to sign-up for an email.  Cares enough to JOIN(?)!

Rosey

 

[revenger 473]

1stLTcap is correct that the rest of America does not know how bad it is hear,  The main reason for that is that out own NRA affiliate does absolutely NOTHING to get that message spread. (go to their website and look for yourself,  first story is a puff piece with Kim Guadano ).     When we still see stories in national firearm publications and on their respective web sites telling us that ALL 50 states have a process to get a CCW than rest of the country thinks that we have CCW. (see the NSSF website)     EVERY issue of all the NRA magazines should have on their cover the  stories from NJ.  Every firearm publication should have a similar policy,   How about gun stores such as Midway, Brownells, Cabelas, Basspro as well as our own local gun stores have a money "round up" to help fight the few remaining states that DON'T have CCW or abide by the constitution instead of sending it to the NRA so they can fight for hunting dogs in North Carolina.  This recent NJ horror story should be breaking news on the NRA-ILA web page as well as the ANJRPC website and every other site you can think of.

 WE will not win this battle within our state without the assistance from the real UNITED States as we are as powerless as the the Polish were in September of 1939.  our only hope comes from outside our borders.  

 It is well beyond time we establish a new pro CCW NRA affiliate here in NJ and fire the current one.    

[capt14k 2,052]

I joined now can I ask have any of the NJ organizations including CNJFO been in touch with the California organizations that have actually won in the courts.

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[HBecwithFn7 296]

27 minutes ago, Smokin .50 said:

 

Quote

Not addressed to you, but ONLY a general response to the highlighted sentence:

I highly doubt we have the numbers as evidenced by the actions of some here typing that they're willing to let a 59 yr old woman rot in jail! 

Precisely my point.

Quote

If tomorrow the Coalition decided to march on Trenton with pitchforks, and we advertised it on social media as well as the forum, a very small percentage of you would hear the sortie signal. 

Sadly, if tomorrow we did that, the MSM would report... "Angry mob of gun nuts armed with pitchforks storms the Trenton Capital, endangering the lives of our hard working legislators..."

 

Quote

Because you're not a member of the Coalition or even bothered to sign-up with us to get a FREE email from us!  How effing STUPID is THAT? 

Yes, I do believe that we are our own worst enemy when it comes to things like this. The "Fudds" in particular, who only care enough about 2A that their precious little "wabbit killer" shot gun is protected. 

Quote

What have YOU done for YOUR RIGHTS today?  Joined a 2A group?  Donated?  Wrote an article I can use?  Volunteered to join a committee?  Sign-up for a FREE effing email?  For Christ's sake, DO SOMETHING!

Funny you mention that... I renewed my "sustaining membership" in my local FL carry org.

[Old School 611]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 0:55 PM, Smokin .50 said:

On behalf of the Coalition of New Jersey Firearm Owners, as its' Vice President, I spent some time this morning on a legal case involving an arrest for possession of a deadly weapon.  The 22 yr old out of state resident was stopped for a MV violation and had a loaded scattergun in the backseat of his pick-up.  Spent 6 days in jail before being bailed-out.  Filed for PTI upon his release.  Has an attorney here in NJ that I've spoken with this morning about the case.  I forwarded said attorney AG Hoffman's 10-page Sept. 2014 memorandum dealing with out-of-state law-abiding citizens that unknowing commit felonies by bringing firearms into NJ.  Attorney doesn't want a big splash YET, so I can't release any more details.  I'm posting this here because I just want you folks to know & realize that we can't broadcast every little detail of what we at the Coalition accomplish on a day-to-day basis.  Hopefully the PTI will be approved in February PRIOR to this case going to trial.  If the attorney asks for our assistance in making a media spectacle of this incident, I'll be sure to enlist YOUR HELP IN DOING SO.  Right now, we're on STAND-BY.

In the meantime, if you wish to help our mission, please consider doing so in what ever capacity you can muster.  And now for the shameless plug:

It's not too late to get a 2017 tax deduction thru a donation to the Coalition:  http://www.cnjfo.com/Donate or to JOIN:  http://www.cnjfo.com/join-us 

Thank you for your time, dollars and consideration!

Happy New Year from all of us at the Coalition!

Dave Rosenthal, VP CNJFO

Dave -I've been following this thread off and on and to be honest I haven't read every post.

I just feel obligated to comment.

The woman in Frenchtown that got bagged for concealed carry w/ PA docs is getting a raw deal and the law needs to be changed.

But this kid with the loaded shotgun on the back seat I have an issue with.  I live in rural SC and a loaded weapon in the rack or on the back seat of the truck is acceptable.  When we hit the city (Of about the population of 20K) we with good sense empty and cover the gun. or at least cover it.

Now though it may be perfectly legal (and I'm not sure it is) for this lad to have a loaded shot gun on his back seat, I question his judgement.  Was it "Brandishing" ?  I don't know. If he had a half of brain he should have had a CWP issued in his state.  Then if he broke the law, so be it.

I just have an issue with irresponsible firearms ownership and this walks the line. Legal or not.

OS

[capt14k 2,052]

The Florida woman had PA docs? Is that correct?

 

 

The kid with the shotgun after looking through state laws I don't think it was too bright but the laws should be Unconstitutional because shall not be infringed means just that. However until the time comes that they are ruled Unconstitutional common sense should prevail. Why did he have a loaded shotgun on the back seat? His case is probably not the best to promote to get others behind our cause.

 

 

Also do any a NJ groups work with the PA groups such as PAFOA?

 

 

 

 

[Howard 538]

I find it very strange that some of the people here that think these out of stater's should get off are the same ones that are just as angry that Hilary Clinton got off based on similar selective prosecution.  Her defense of oh I did not mean to do anything illegal is just as wrong as these peoples'.  You break the law you suffer the consequences.  Ignorance is not an excuse.  These laws need to be changed, not be selectively enforced.

[HBecwithFn7 296]

8 minutes ago, capt14k said:

The Florida woman had PA docs? Is that correct?

I don't think so.

 

The kid with the shotgun after looking through state laws I don't think it was too bright but the laws should be Unconstitutional because shall not be infringed means just that.

Not to the dems who think it's a "living document" subject to the interpretations of the day.  Hence the reliance on the  SCOTUS decisions that left wiggle room for a portion of the rights to be "restricted" (i.e. RKBA is not totally "absolute"). I don't have a problem with restricting the right to those who have proven themselves "unworthy" of the right by their actions  (i.e. crime/felony, domestic violence, etc. etc. etc.) or those "adjudicated" mentally ill by a court... not just "suspected" of it.  But because we leave this wiggle room open, it gives the anti's fuel to try and add even more restrictions (type of guns, mag capacities, etc. etc.).  

I think a good separation point is to say, "The right *is* absolute, unless you do something that makes you unworthy of it."  After all, the "right to life" is absolute until you commit an act of "Capital Murder..." for which you might forfeit your right to life by "riding the needle."   But you have to take an action that renders you "unworthy."  It cannot be taken away without any such action.