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Magazine Ban Upheld

242 posts in this topic

22 minutes ago, SmittyMHS said:

Nothing wrong with tossing them in the lake...Unless it could be considered littering or polluting somehow. A safe deposit box could be considered that you still have control of them. I wouldn't suggest doing that.

Sometimes people get scared or nervous. Perhaps excited delirium. And they then feel the intronet is a safe space.

ya, litering is way bad bro. 

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3 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

Or, another option, everyone can grow a pair and stand up for your legal rights:

Ex post facto law

An ex post facto law (corrupted from Latin: ex postfacto, lit. 'out of the aftermath') is a law that retroactively changes the legal consequences (or status) of actions that were committed, or relationships that existed, before the enactment of the law. In criminal law, it may criminalize actions that were legal when committed;

Ex post facto laws are expressly forbidden by the United States Constitution in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 3 (with respect to federal laws) and Article 1, Section 10 (with respect to state laws).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

 

seems to not do very well at stopping them. 

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6 hours ago, oldguysrule649 said:

One option, I researched this morning was to store my >10 rnd mags at Gunsitters in Whippany. 

6 hours ago, oldguysrule649 said:

The process is to purchase the magazine storage via their website and they will email you instructions on how to box and mail your mags to them. 

6 hours ago, oldguysrule649 said:

Lacking any relief from the courts; after December 10th you would have several options.  You could continue to store them there as-is long term,

So, how will that actually be legal?

1) According to Nappen, you can't "transport" them since June, so are they having the package picked up at your house, because according to some here, as soon as you leave your house with them, you're a felon?

2) If they are being stored in Whippany under your name, doesn't that still count as "possession" in the state? How can they store them in their possession legally? Are THEY exempt from the law?

3) Whenever you want to retrieve your mags after Dec. 10th, don't you become an instant felon if you pick them up or have them shipped back to you in the state?

5 hours ago, BobA said:

Get a box here. It’s really, really, really unlikely anyone will get a warrant for that.

But, how are you going to transport them legally back and forth?

 

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46 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

So, how will that actually be legal?

1) According to Nappen, you can't "transport" them since June, so are they having the package picked up at your house, because according to some here, as soon as you leave your house with them, you're a felon?

2) If they are being stored in Whippany under your name, doesn't that still count as "possession" in the state? How can they store them in their possession legally? Are THEY exempt from the law?

3) Whenever you want to retrieve your mags after Dec. 10th, don't you become an instant felon if you pick them up or have them shipped back to you in the state?

But, how are you going to transport them legally back and forth?

 

My main piece of advice is to call them and obtain the answers to whatever questions you have first hand from them.  

With that said , my understanding is they worked out their process in conjunction with the appropriate NJ authorities. Ie you would be able to legally take your box of mags to the post office to mail it to them.  They are an FFL and can legally store them.  After Dec 10, you would have to have them shipped out of state, otherwise yes, you would become an instant felon.

Lastly, IANAL

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I wanted to share this option since it appeared things had gone quiet in recent weeks regarding what options are available. Each of us will have to decide what is best for our own situation.  E.g. do nothing, bury them, have them modified, store them out of state at a relatives house, use Gunsitters, destroy and discard them, safe deposit box out of state, boating accident, and so on.   Some options are legal, some are not. Pick your poison.   And yes, this whole situation really sucks.

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4 hours ago, JHZR2 said:

$12?  TD charged us $75/yr for not a very big one, and we keep a decent balance. 

 

Where so you bank?

I bank at TD. I get a free box with my account. Been here there close to 15 years now. 

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After doing a bit of research and giving this some further thought, I am leaning towards opening an account and getting a safe deposit box($40-75 per year), at a bank branch in Pa.  Seems to be the least costly and best option for me.   Hope to do so in the next few weeks.   (Thinking longer term; at such time that NJ declares any of my firearms to be assault weapons (a joke unto itself given they are 22lr and 9mm), my plan would be to move them to Gunsitters in Pa, and my exiled magazines can rejoin them there.)  

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1 hour ago, oldguysrule649 said:

After doing a bit of research and giving this some further thought, I am leaning towards opening an account and getting a safe deposit box($40-75 per year), at a bank branch in Pa.  Seems to be the least costly and best option for me.   Hope to do so in the next few weeks.   (Thinking longer term; at such time that NJ declares any of my firearms to be assault weapons (a joke unto itself given they are 22lr and 9mm), my plan would be to move them to Gunsitters in Pa, and my exiled magazines can rejoin them there.)  

The stones they have to over turn just to know if you have one never mind the warrant to look in one really makes it the best place. And there are all sizes. A couple of guys could chip in if need be. 

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I personally don't think the storage cost being sponsored here makes sense. In 3 years of storage cost you can pay for almost any new mag, except a few 2011 models. I don't think we will be hearing from the Supreme court by then (if ever) on this suite in particular. I suppose if one is going to be moving soon it might make sense at 1.25/mag/month.

I am happy what ANJRPC has tried to do on this suite overall, the suite was well written and thought out and reference rich. I put all the blame of failure so far on the Federal District judge, his reasoning was weak, and his bias obvious. If he wasn't biased in favor of the state we would have won at least with one of the main 3 complaints. For example, grandfathering, compensation, parity with ret-cops for those who have 15r already in possession.

That said, i am left wondering how ANJRPC is managing this injunction/stay appeal. It was immediately denied "without prejudice" and with no explanation. ANJRPC says this may mean the A-court will rule before dec-10 on the main case (rather than the injunction). Is there any reason our lawyers can't ask the A-Court their intentions, that is if they are done with their standing denial, or if they do in fact intend to rule on the main case before dec 10? This would be helpful to all involved, so we, and our Lawyers can take the next step now. Or perhaps in our modern day Land-of-OZ, it would be considered too forward for the peon-subjects to question the "man behind the curtain" with this small question of clarification - LOL!

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Don't worry about the appeal--the game is over. There is no way the Third Circuit is going to reverse based upon the standard of review that they have to apply to the denial of the preliminary injunction etc.

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20 minutes ago, Redlines said:

Mabey we should form a group to fund a lawsuit suing the state for replacement costs of mags they made illegal.  Some people are looking at hundreds of dollars in replacement cost of a thing that was legally purchased . 

How about we just send Mr.Murphy :fuckyou:  an invoice billing him for the total we all had to lay out? If I remember right, he and his wife made several million in capital gains last year according to the papers regarding his tax filings.  

Yeah, I know just how much sense that makes in real life,,,,,,,,,:ireful:

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1 hour ago, Redlines said:

Mabey we should form a group to fund a lawsuit suing the state for replacement costs of mags they made illegal.  Some people are looking at hundreds of dollars in replacement cost of a thing that was legally purchased . 

I like it.  I’m in at least for a legal review of prior precedent. 

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1 hour ago, Redlines said:

Mabey we should form a group to fund a lawsuit suing the state for replacement costs of mags they made illegal.

 

46 minutes ago, 345Sire said:

How about we just send Mr.Murphy :fuckyou:  an invoice billing him for the total we all had to lay out?

I think we should all mail 15 round magazines on Dec. 10th to all the state politicians houses that voted for the bill. Then on Dec. 11, when the packages arrive at their houses, we photograph them receiving the mags.

Instant felons!

Then post their pictures on all the state newspapers. Turn around is fair game! If turban head refuses to prosecute them, there's our "Get out of Jail free" card!

 

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47 minutes ago, 345Sire said:

How about we just send Mr.Murphy :fuckyou:  an invoice billing him for the total we all had to lay out? If I remember right, he and his wife made several million in capital gains last year according to the papers regarding his tax filings.  

Yeah, I know just how much sense that makes in real life,,,,,,,,,:ireful:

 

Ive often wondered if there is grounds or ability for every party harmed to sue, in small claims court, the gov and at least the sponsoring parties, if not your local “representative” assuming they voted for it.  All have a part in financial harm caused to you through no fault of your own.  

Standard language could be written, and people could adjust it to their specific need.  

Sue every one of them. 

Just now, Sniper22 said:

 

I think we should all mail 15 round magazines on Dec. 10th to all the state politicians houses that voted for the bill. Then on Dec. 11, when the packages arrive at their houses, we photograph them receiving the mags.

Instant felons!

Then post their pictures on all the state newspapers. Turn around is fair game! If turban head refuses to prosecute them, there's our "Get out of Jail free" card!

 

They’ll call the cops and report it.  The mags will become theirs.  Are cops grandfathered??

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2 minutes ago, JHZR2 said:

They’ll call the cops and report it.  The mags will become theirs.

But they won't know what's in the box until they open it, which will be done in their home. Possession = Felon on Dec. 11th.

It will be after the fact if they call LEO to come get them.

We need to photograph the box before it gets sealed so you can show what was in it and who it's being sent to.

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32 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

 

I think we should all mail 15 round magazines on Dec. 10th to all the state politicians houses that voted for the bill. Then on Dec. 11, when the packages arrive at their houses, we photograph them receiving the mags.

Instant felons!

Then post their pictures on all the state newspapers. Turn around is fair game! If turban head refuses to prosecute them, there's our "Get out of Jail free" card!

 

Turban head? You must be a 101.5 listener! :lol: me too!

Ignoring the fact that the mail isn't likely to get them there in a day, the politico's won't be held to the same standards as we peons anyhow. And no prosecutor is going to alienate his political allies, he's likely headed for the same office himself soon.

 

But I like how your mind works,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

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1 hour ago, JHZR2 said:

 

Ive often wondered if there is grounds or ability for every party harmed to sue, in small claims court, the gov and at least the sponsoring parties, if not your local “representative” assuming they voted for it.  All have a part in financial harm caused to you through no fault of your own.  

Standard language could be written, and people could adjust it to their specific need.  

Sue every one of them. 

They’ll call the cops and report it.  The mags will become theirs.  Are cops grandfathered??

grandfathered? Why would they need to be, they are exempt.

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2 hours ago, 345Sire said:

Turban head? You must be a 101.5 listener! :lol: me too!

Just a sincere term of endearment. :)

2 hours ago, 345Sire said:

But I like how your mind works,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Well, if that doesn't fly, I'll  just use the story line for the next Tom Clancy novel.

2 hours ago, 345Sire said:

Ignoring the fact that the mail isn't likely to get them there in a day, the politico's won't be held to the same standards as we peons anyhow.

Actually, Fedex or UPS would be better with a Signature or delivery confirmation. Then they can't say that they didn't posses them.

The odds of them actually being held accountable would be slim and none, but might give us some push-back ammo...

One can dream...

 

 

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7 hours ago, Sniper22 said:

But they won't know what's in the box until they open it, which will be done in their home. Possession = Felon on Dec. 11th.

It will be after the fact if they call LEO to come get them.

We need to photograph the box before it gets sealed so you can show what was in it and who it's being sent to.

Okay, if you got a package from someone you didnt know containing a kilo of cocaine and called police to turn it in do you think you would be charged with possession with intent to distribute?

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On 11/7/2018 at 11:50 AM, JHZR2 said:

I have an issue with a lack of aggression and action on part of ANJRPC and NJ2AS.  Primarily on the basis that so much of what the state enacts either inconveniences, or could turn normal people who would be doing normal things in 47 or so of the rest of the states, into felons over minutiae.  There’s a level of protection against that, which even if not resulting in CCW or other doctrine, should be blatantly critical.  

I don’t know how many didn’t vote or didn’t donate.  Some data analysis may shed some light into notional scenarios at least. But some better game plans and definition of how much of a war chest is needed might help. Clear and definite communication.  Overwhelming cases.  

Lack of NJ2AS aggression?  Misdirected aggression is their biggest problem!

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9 hours ago, GRIZ said:

Okay, if you got a package from someone you didnt know containing a kilo of cocaine and called police to turn it in do you think you would be charged with possession with intent to distribute?

In this state???  Anything is possible.

I know I was reaching in my comment, but trying to think out of the box, and make the politicians wake up and feel OUR pain.

Hey, at least I'm thinking.... has anyone else here come with a better idea, or are they just sitting here whining?

You know the answer to that last question.

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18 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

In this state???  Anything is possible.

I know I was reaching in my comment, but trying to think out of the box, and make the politicians wake up and feel OUR pain.

Hey, at least I'm thinking.... has anyone else here come with a better idea, or are they just sitting here whining?

You know the answer to that last question.

I would think of you want to frame someone for a crime you'd be better off not detailing how you were going to do it on an Internet forum.

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HEARING TODAY IN
MAGAZINE BAN CASE
 
November 14, 2018. Today, oral argument in ANJRPC's appeal of the mag ban case was held before the Third Circuit Court of Appeals in Newark. The argument took one hour, and no decision was rendered from the bench, but a decision is anticipated shortly.
 
Argument for ANJRPC was handled by David Thompson, Esq, of the law firm of Cooper & Kirk, with assistance of Dan Schmutter, Esq. and Joel Alicea, Esq. Argument for New Jersey was handled the New Jersey Attorney General's office.
 
The three-judge panel that heard the case consisted of Judge Shwarz (appointed by President Obama), Judge Greenaway (appointed by President Clinton), and Judge Bibas (appointed by President Trump).
 
With a December 10 compliance deadline looming under the new mag ban law, ANJRPC anticipates disseminating its analysis next week of how to comply with the new law, should that be made necessary by the Third Circuit.
 
 
SUPPORT THE LAWSUIT
CLICK HERE TO DONATE!
 
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The Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs 
is the official NRA state affiliate in the Garden State 
 
 
Join Us On Facebook!
 
ANJRPC | PO Box 353 , Pompton Plains, NJ 07422

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40 minutes ago, njJoniGuy said:

The three-judge panel that heard the case consisted of Judge Shwarz (appointed by President Obama), Judge Greenaway (appointed by President Clinton), and Judge Bibas (appointed by President Trump).

Bend over, here it comes...

 

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