Twospot 38 Posted December 1, 2011 Thank you for your hard work. I am new to the gun hobby and I will be definitely joining the organization. This is just insanity! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LorenzoS 100 Posted December 1, 2011 Damn it, the NJSP is using the Chewbacca Defense! Not fair! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bry@n 195 Posted December 1, 2011 Cool, lets hope they go our way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tony357 386 Posted December 1, 2011 Cool, lets hope they go our way. I hope your not delivering the verdict? Sorry for the interuption fell over from another thread.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted December 2, 2011 Is it today? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Krdshrk 3,878 Posted December 2, 2011 Well today's the 2nd, so yes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Malsua 1,422 Posted December 2, 2011 Dec 2, at 11:30 AM Not long now to find out the next way they will delay it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Soju 153 Posted December 2, 2011 You got to love our legal system where it can take 6 months (soon to be more I imagine) for a single request by the judge to be fulfilled because all you have to do is not comply and instead just ask for extensions. How is the even allowed? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
djg0770 481 Posted December 2, 2011 You got to love our legal system where it can take 6 months (soon to be more I imagine) for a single request by the judge to be fulfilled because all you the AG has to do is not comply and instead just ask for extensions. How is the even allowed? Fixed it for you Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fumanchu182 23 Posted December 2, 2011 Was just clued into the NJ2AS. This is a nail biter. Look forward to hearing the outcome. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raz-0 1,264 Posted December 2, 2011 This is ridiculous. I hope the judge reads it as "No really, we were really just wasting your time judge. We wanted to show you the least respect possible without removing any articles of clothing." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hd2000fxdl 422 Posted December 2, 2011 Can we carry yet??? Oh sorry wrong thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david8613 69 Posted December 2, 2011 can you imagine how many holsters will be sold that day!!!! it probably would give a boost to the economy! lol... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackDaWack 2,895 Posted December 2, 2011 can you imagine how many holsters will be sold that day!!!! it probably would give a boost to the economy! lol... Not only holsters... people will be going out and buying dedicated carry handguns. Not one of my pistols is "carry" friendly, i've never had a reason to contemplate if the pistol is carry compatible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muzzelloader69 9 Posted December 2, 2011 any body no whats going on with the results? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cemeterys Gun Blob 165 Posted December 2, 2011 any body no whats going on with the results? This is New Jersey, dollars to donuts, if anything happened, it wasn't in our favor. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted December 2, 2011 anyone know what happened today? Tomorrow @ 7pm is too long for me right now! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NicePants 58 Posted December 3, 2011 I can probably foresee the outcome to this: Judge: WELL AFTER HEARING FROM BOTH SIDES, PARTICULARLY THE AG AND HER MERRY BAND OF NJSP COHORTS, IN ALL MY JOLLY JUDGINESS, I DECREE THAT THE GUIDE SHALL REMAIN SUPER DUPER EXTRA SECRET. AG/NJSP: HERPADERPAWOOOOOOOOOO! WARBLEWARBLE! WARKWARKWARK! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muzzelloader69 9 Posted December 3, 2011 how come nothing is posted yet on this? , court should be over with by now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCinJ 7 Posted December 3, 2011 I just read all 9 pages of this saga. Glad to know we have some good people working on the side of preserving our second amendment rights here in NJ. Some friends of mine live right across the bridge in PA, and it's like a different country when it comes to firearms. All these super strict gun control laws and look at cities like Camden, Trenton, Newark, etc. Filled with illegal firearms while the law abiding citizen waits months to get purchase permits that make them wait months. While I don't ever intend to own a AK-47 or even buy/sell more than a few guns a year - I don't want to infringe on any law abiding citizen to do so if he/she pleases to own a large capacity, fully automatic rifle or buy/sell as many guns as they like. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bob B 103 Posted December 3, 2011 Sorry it has taken so long, but it has been a long day and I am only, just now, sitting in front of my computer. I have added the third certification and our response to the OP. Today, in the court room, the judge sat down and immediately started talking about the OPRA portion of the case. Frank and I immediately took this as a bad sign, because if he intended to give us the guide under common law, he would have no need to address the OPRA issue at all. In about a minute and a half, Judge Hurd concluded that the guide is, in fact, an SOP and the rule (Executive Order 47) declaring all SOP's in the Division of Law and Public Safety exempt from OPRA as "stretching the limit" but valid. Keep in mind that he heard no oral arguments on the issue whatsoever as he avoided it from the beginning. He then allowed both sides to speak about the common law portion, but it was clear what his intentions were. After 30 minutes or so, he concluded that the third certification was sufficient and convinced him that releasing the guide would cause harm - even though the defense provided no evidence whatsoever, as required by law, that it would. He then concluded that the need for the state to keep the guide a secret outweighed our need to see it, a test that is only required if the guide would cause harm. Although we were very disappointed in the verdict (if you read the third certification you'll understand why - it's garbage) we were extremely happy that the judge concluded that the guide is an SOP. This was far more important than actually seeing the guide. One of the primary objectives of this case was to get the state to commit to a definition of the guide prior to challenging a municipality on additional requirements. That has now been accomplished. Although it does not make anything a slam dunk (as if that was possible in NJ), it does help us. So, there you have it. I'm sure you are wondering if we are going to appeal. That announcement will be made shortly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJM981 924 Posted December 3, 2011 Must be nice to do whatever you want and not be held accountable for making willfully negligent poor decisions on a regular basis... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CageFighter 236 Posted December 3, 2011 Must be nice to do whatever you want and not be held accountable for making willfully negligent poor decisions on a regular basis... Especially after giving them THREE tries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
njJoniGuy 2,133 Posted December 3, 2011 Is it true that the judge's surname really begins with the letter "T" not the letter "H" and it has been purposely mis-spelled to disassociate his name from the content of his ruling? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
compujas 21 Posted December 3, 2011 I like how they think that a NJ PD is the avenue that terrorists and criminals take to obtain firearms. I wonder how many FID/PPP Trenton, Camden, and Newark give out relative to the rest of the state given there are probably more guns in those 3 towns than the rest of the state. I can just imagine the guy writing these certs sitting there saying "I don't know what to write....let's just say this. If it's wrong I'll get another try anyway, right?". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TCinJ 7 Posted December 3, 2011 Activist judge............. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbtrout 141 Posted December 3, 2011 So how does the guide being ruled an SOP help? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LorenzoS 100 Posted December 3, 2011 I imagine that by declaring the guide a standard, even if its secret, it establishes a benchmark to say towns are not complying with that standard. In fact if you read page 5 of the NJSP's certification, they basically say you don't need to see the guide becuase the requirements for an application are public and municipalities are not permitted to add additional ones. This seems the lynchpin to preventing towns from adding whatever nonsense they want. But Godamit New Jersey. Godamit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
n4p226r 105 Posted December 3, 2011 do these judges have a boss? who do they have to answer to or can they do whatever they want with no worry of anything more than a bad appeals record? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Babaganoosh 192 Posted December 3, 2011 I'm so sick of this. We know that there is a copy or two out there in public hands. Whoever has it needs to get in touch with someone who is internet savvy and dump it all over the internet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites