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10 minutes ago, remixer said:

what im saying is NJ will push the limits.... But violating the 4th would be an automatic supreme court challenge.

the state does not want that.

 

If it is some poor black kid from Newark whose 4th amendment rights are being violated, I agree. But a middle-class white guy from a better neighborhood? There'd be a shit-ton of political mileage to be had before it gets anywhere near SCOTUS.

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1 hour ago, capt14k said:

That is not grounds for a warrant. For example.

 

Most folks took the maximum capacity option when ordering a Glock your honor so we believe John Smith has high capacity mags. Any proof he hasn't sold them, modified them, or didnt order 10 round mags. No your honor. Any other evidence John Smith has high capacity mags other than he ordered a Glock? No your honor. Get out of my Chambers.

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

 

Someone planning to move to NY or CA

 

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

you forget that you're talking about nj judges that uphold laws in violation of their oaths and the constitution?

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1 minute ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

If it is some poor black kid from Newark whose 4th amendment rights are being violated, I agree. But a middle-class white guy from a better neighborhood? There'd be a shit-ton of political mileage to be had before it gets anywhere near SCOTUS.

We should hope you are incorrect...

Lets hope we do not have to find out.

 

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3 hours ago, Combat Auto said:

Yes, if it was only about money, he wouldn't warn us about a thing and wind up potentially with more business. Although, I didn't agree with some of his advise, I do find the package we got from ANJRPC yesterday interesting. I think he provided a decent amount of free advise in the rare case a Trooper comes knocking on one's door.

Of course it's about the money. Wake up.

How many people received that email yesterday out of all the gun owners in the state. Maybe 5% at best.

There's over 90% of gun owners who are clueless to the new mag law. Those are Nappen's future customers when they get busted the next few months going to the range with their 15 rounders.

Sending out an email to the people who already know what's going on isn't a big deal. You're being played...

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7 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Of course it's about the money. Wake up.

How many people received that email yesterday out of all the gun owners in the state. Maybe 5% at best.

There's over 90% of gun owners who are clueless to the new mag law. Those are Nappen's future customers when they get busted the next few months going to the range with their 15 rounders.

Sending out an email to the people who already know what's going on isn't a big deal. You're being played...

You are making absolutely no sense go back to bed and sleep it off...We already get it, you hate the man. Is it Nappen's fault also that these gun owners don't get the ANJRPC (FREE) e-mail!!! Next thing you will post is he has secret meeting with the lefty to scheme against us. :-)

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54 minutes ago, remixer said:

We should all meet at a Star bucks to discuss this face to face...

 

It would help put matters to rest and at the same time drive the liberals fucking nuts.

 

Exactly.. you cant assume no one followed the law and that is not grounds for a search....

I think the NJSP can and should send out "Mail" to all FID holders informing them of the law and the penalties for non compliance but thats about as far as it will go

 

The car guys do that... cars and coffee.  Can we do guns and coffee?

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1 minute ago, Combat Auto said:

You are making absolutely no sense go back to bed and sleep it off...We already get it, you hate the man. Is it Nappen's fault also that these gun owners don't get the ANJRPC (FREE) e-mal!!! Next thing you will post is he has secrete meeting with the lefty to scheme against us.

What's free? We pay a membership, and I asked before... And I'm sure, that Nappan is being compensated for all of it, including the numerous info sessions he's selling out with these scare tactics.

 

37 minutes ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

If it is some poor black kid from Newark whose 4th amendment rights are being violated, I agree. But a middle-class white guy from a better neighborhood? There'd be a shit-ton of political mileage to be had before it gets anywhere near SCOTUS.

I feel like we're talking out both sides of our mouth now... 

And we've been beating a dead horse for pages now. 

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15 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

What's free? We pay a membership, and I asked before... And I'm sure, that Nappan is being compensated for all of it, including the numerous info sessions he's selling out with these scare tactics.

 

I feel like we're talking out both sides of our mouth now... 

And we've been beating a dead horse for pages now. 

Cheese, the alerts are free. You don't need to be a member, for shooter's who are "financially-challenged", or just don't give a crap about supporting :-)...

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26 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

You are making absolutely no sense go back to bed and sleep it off...We already get it, you hate the man.

Who said anything about hate... Please, pull your nose out of his ass, he'll still send you your check for cheerleading for him.

Not everyone drinks his koolaid, and for the ones paying attention, his actions and postings of late make him look TOTALLY unprofessional, unhinged and irresponsible. Now, those might be traits that you look for in a professional attorney, but they're not the ones that I look for.

31 minutes ago, Combat Auto said:

Next thing you will post is he has secret meeting with the lefty to scheme against us. :-)

Seriously, loosen up on the tin foil. You're sounding as unhinged as he is. STOP reading his delusional, fear mongering posts, you'll be much better for it.

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13 minutes ago, Sniper22 said:

Who said anything about hate... Please, pull your nose out of his ass, he'll still send you your check for cheerleading for him.

Not everyone drinks his koolaid, and for the ones paying attention, his actions and postings of late make him look TOTALLY unprofessional, unhinged and irresponsible. Now, those might be traits that you look for in a professional attorney, but they're not the ones that I look for.

Seriously, loosen up on the tin foil. You're sounding as unhinged as he is. STOP reading his delusional, fear mongering posts, you'll be much better for it.

LOL, Obviously you have the belief's of a Lefty Socialist as you expect someone to work for free and give you a free-handout, which confirms what I suspected if you want to start with the childish crap, your head is up Murphy's Butt so far you can't think straight. And just about every post you make exemplifies this. Like I said, go back to bed and sleep it off. Or give up reloading, or at least get your blood-level's checked. Something isn't right with your thinking.

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2 hours ago, JasonSeidman said:

It's almost like someone else wrote something similar a few days earlier and was excoriated by his minions for it because they were a complicity monger. Either way I'm happy people are getting the right info now as opposed to the garbage posted earlier on Facebook.

 

Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Tapatalk

 

 

 

Jason,

When the dust settles I'd like to schedule a lunch with you some day.  You can leave your Flak Vest at the office :) 

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1 hour ago, Combat Auto said:

Cheese, the alerts are free. You don't need to be a member, for shooter's who are "financially-challenged", or just don't give a crap about supporting :-)...

For the most part, non of his actions every bothered me that much. I disagreed with him on a bunch of stuff, always thought he took his understanding of laws a little further then needed, in some cases adding to them. It wasn't until late that I started to see a little bit of a pattern here. I've been more confused trying to understand what he's saying, and how the state will take certain actions he makes seem legal. I've read through the laws more times I care to count, been through countless cases and appeals rulings.. even the informed find this all puzzling... 

So why confuse everyone with this rhetoric? What purpose does it serve?

Like I said and will continue to point out, it makes him seem very relevant, his meetings at ANJRPC, his letters of guidance I can garantee he's paid for, and of course the promotion of his book. 

No one works for free, and I would rather the money ANJRPC collects to go to better causes than scaring everyone into a conversation with Nappen in which he benefits financially. There is no reason for it.. 

If you scare and confuse people, ofcourse they will look for guidance...

For the salary paid to Scott Bach, I'd like to see him take a better approach than outsourcing to Nappen for basic info.

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3 minutes ago, JackDaWack said:

For the most part, non of his actions every bothered me that much. I disagreed with him on a bunch of stuff, always thought he took his understanding of laws a little further then needed, in some cases adding to them. It wasn't until late that I started to see a little bit of a pattern here. I've been more confused trying to understand what he's saying, and how the state will take certain actions he makes seem legal. I've read through the laws more times I care to count, been through countless cases and appeals rulings.. even the informed find this all puzzling... 

So why confuse everyone with this rhetoric? What purpose does it serve?

Like I said and will continue to point out, it makes him seem very relevant, his meetings at ANJRPC, his letters of guidance I can garantee he's paid for, and of course the promotion of his book. 

No one works for free, and I would rather the money ANJRPC collects to go to better causes than scaring everyone into a conversation with Nappen in which he benefits financially. There is no reason for it.. 

Good fair critique you made...Just because I like some of his stuff, doesn't mean I agree with all of it...I personally did get value out of the one they shipped out yesterday, just as an example.

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Just because he didn’t win a case doesn’t make him a bad guy or greedy. The cards have been against the 2A crowd in Jersey for far too long. If there was a better lawyer to represent the ANJRPC in this case, they would have hired them. I wouldn’t make him the scapegoat, I also bet he’s got a magnifying glass on him right now by big brother, he can’t just tell you to not comply

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I've read and listened to the arguments, I have no issues with the case that was presented and the appeals. The case IMO was as strong as it could be. I don't suggest that he's not a good lawyer in the court room. 

This has nothing to do with that, though. 

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12 hours ago, FedUpWithNJ said:

NJSP and local police have sufficient information on many of us to have more than a reasonable suspicion that we are in possession of 15 round magazines.

Ha! We can’t even get car insurance info attached to MV registration. 

You have an extremely over inflated idea of the capabilities of N.J. Law Enforcement.

Forgetting everything else necessary to act on it - the mere idea that any LEO agencies in N.J. have our shit together enough to look at a list of residents and pick out who has mags that violate this new statute is laughable! Let alone that anyone will sign off that it is enough PC to act on. No way.

Just like before, people are going to get hemmed up with mag charges ancillary to other events that they are involved in. These other events will bring more scrutiny on them and their possessions to the point action is taken.

In my opinion, these mag cases will be charges that fall into a prosecutor’s lap, not something that will be hunted down. 

Dont be stupid. Don’t drink and drive. Don’t beat your spouse. Don’t rape each other. Tell you kids to not do stupid shit at school. Do these things and no one will ever give you or your possessions a second glance.

Oh, and shut up about it and just live your life.

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26 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Do these things and no one will ever give you or your possessions a second glance.

Oh, and shut up about it and just live your life.

As in, "comply meekly as your constitutional rights are eroded".

I may have no option but to comply. I have no intention of complying in silence.

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3 hours ago, JHZR2 said:

The car guys do that... cars and coffee.  Can we do guns and coffee?

@Pizza Bob has organized a bunch of Starbucks meetups in the past.  I am totally down for them.  What area?  Generally it was in the warmer months, but plenty of places that have good amounts of space.  Also know of a certain cafe owner in Central Jersey so that might work too. =) 

 

17 minutes ago, High Exposure said:

Ha! We can’t even get car insurance info attached to MV registration. 

You have an extremely over inflated idea of the capabilities of N.J. Law Enforcement.

Forgetting everything else necessary to act on it - the mere idea that any LEO agencies in N.J. have our shit together enough to look at a list of residents and pick out who has mags that violate this new statute is laughable! Let alone that anyone will sign off that it is enough PC to act on. No way.

Just like before, people are going to get hemmed up with mag charges ancillary to other events that they are involved. These other events will bring more scrutiny on them and their possessions to the point action is taken.

In my opinion, these mag cases will be charges that fall into a prosecutor’s lap, not something that will be hunted down. 

Dont be stupid. Don’t drink and drive. Don’t beat your spouse. Don’t rape each other. Tell you kids to not do stupid shit at school. Do these things and no one will ever give you or your possessions a second glance.

Oh, and shut up about it and just live your life.

.... but but but but they can look at your pistol permits and assume you have 30 round clippazines! =P

Thanks for providing your particular viewpoint giving folks some more common sense. 

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No.
I won't shut up.
I will fight for my constitutional rights.


Actually, you aren’t...

You are fighting a perceived injustice that L/E doesn’t have the logistics to actually accomplish.

You want to fight the magazine ban and likely future legislation... definitely have a lot of support here (or at least I think you would). But let’s call it as it is...

Nobody has a problem with supporting gun owners... well, maybe a member or two on here. But when fear is created, it should be warranted... not done to drum up business for Uncle Evan.

L/E isn’t all you see on TV. There isn’t a situation room with lists of names, scrolling pictures of firearms that accept magazine over 10 rounds, and printers giving pages of info on people that may fit that bill. Less than ten years ago, buildings at the NJSP academy required you to wear your winter coat because they couldn’t afford to fix the heat. There are some departments that need to jump start their squad cars between shifts. Trust me, High Exposure is spot on. I trust him well over Nappen.
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1 minute ago, Screwball said:

You are fighting a perceived injustice that L/E doesn’t have the logistics to actually accomplish.

No, I am fighting an actual injustice that L/E may or may not choose to enforce. But they surely would if directed to from on-high.

Now, I don't disagree that it is unlikely. But if you told me there'd be a risk of courts overturning mens rea for inconsequential gun law infractions, I also would have been skeptical. Yet they did.

You seem to have an issue with Nappen. This has nothing to do with him. Highlighting the worst-case scenarios under the legislation forces the politicians to respond and is effective in mobilizing opposition.

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7 hours ago, USRifle30Cal said:

Stop!

I am going to call bullshit  ...  

 

Are you telling us that a collapsible stock an evil feature item, was beaten in court,  as a non evil item by the fact that it doesn't fully collapse?

I find that very very hard to believe  ...

 

You, as a retired LEO, should know charges are dropped all the time.  Even on guilty persons.

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Lots of really valuable discussion here.  Will ask to keep personal attacks out of it... or take it up over PM.  We can express ourselves fairly well without namecalling... and we are at the end of the day gun owners and decent human beings. thanks.

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You seem to have an issue with Nappen. This has nothing to do with him. Highlighting the worst-case scenarios under the legislation forces the politicians to respond and is effective in mobilizing opposition.

 

I have an issue of mountains being made out of molehills... which is my main issue with Nappen, at the moment. You see... it is actually the topic of the thread.

 

Nappen might be a hell of a guy. Don’t know, and truly don’t care. He is a lawyer... one that I would not ever call up because he still argues things are illegal that NJSP and the AG clearly stated are legal. I have no use for a lawyer like that. If, in the unlikelihood that I need a lawyer in NJ that I’d feel comfortable with regarding firearms... he did post already in this thread multiple times. That’s my choice, as is anyone else’s. If you can afford X lawyer, then that’s how you are represented.

 

Your argument is baseless. Your injustice is imaginary. And your theory doesn’t have a chance in hell of actually occurring (resources, lack of probable cause, etc). But if you want to stoke the same fire as Nappen, whether it is due to delusion or ignorance... you get the same response from me. Sorry if you take offense.

 

And seeing the post before mine, none of mine is attacking FedUpWithNJ. Same line I put about Nappen in the second paragraph would equally place him in his place... and be accurate for my view. But stoking the flame is what I have issue with, which even if the reasons are different... it is the same thing as what Nappen is doing.

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